How can Israel negotiate with people who are sworn to destroy Israel and not recognize it?
I responded:
You are simply repeating one of the endless evasions that the Israeli government uses because it believes that there is nothing to be gained from peace. Terrorism has ended, the occasional rockets from Gaza are only a nuisance, and are certainly not an existential threat, so who cares if there is a formal peace. Now the dream of many, to occupy all of Palestine seems within reach. Of course it means what has always been considered to be unacceptable results, i.e. either ethnically cleanse the Arabs from all of Palestine, or make them non citizens within the Jewish state, or force them into small enclaves where they would lead an even more miserable existence than they now have, and which would, essentially be Apartheid, or a combination of these. But that appears now to be acceptable. Rabin must be whirling in his grave, and even David Ben-Gurion must be muttering in his. Certainly Theodor Herzl never thought that his dream might lead to such a travesty.
You say, 'How can Israel negotiate with people who do not recognize it?' This is reminiscent of the days when we were faced with a USSR and the question was then, 'how can we negotiate with a country bent on world domination.' Thank God we did!!!!
How can Israel negotiate with people who do not recognize it. That in itself is misleading, for the Palestinian Authority has recognized Israel and so you lump all Palestinians with Hamas. And it will be months yet before the two merge, a time when negotiations could yet be concluded.
And as to Hamas it would be more appropriate to ask how can they negotiate with a country it does not recognize. The point is one can negotiate with anyone who is willing to negotiate with you.
Recognition is the end of negotiations - not the beginning. Has Israel recognized a Palestinian state. Shouldn't they be required to recognize it before negotiations can begin?
It is all of one. There is nothing to negotiate about if the Netanyahu government is intent on occupying all of the West Bank, which apparently is what they intend. There will never be a defensible border according to this bunch, except on the Jordan river, and as for the Palestinians, "they are not human anyway."
What it means to a Jew, above all, is to walk righteously before the Lord. Israel, which at one time appeared to be the "shining castle on the hill", is betraying the most fundamental tenets of what it means to be a Jew."
Allow me to add that it also is in Israel's security interests to achieve a peace now. With the Arab spring we have a whole new balance. Before Israel could count on Egypt and the other Arab states putting their relationship with Israel and with the US above their allegiance to the Palestinians. That is no longer true and if they feel that their brethren are being mistreated, new hostilities are a possibility. Egypt has already ceased cooperation with Israel on the blockade of Gaza. On the other hand if the Palestinians make peace with Israel that rage in the Arab world will be dissipated. Even Hezbollah in the South of Lebanon would have a hard time justifying new hostilities. This is the time for Israel to choose peace or endless war.
Is the messianic desire to occupy all the biblical land, i.e. Judea and Samaria really worth it.
If the Israeli government can't see these things than it is up to Americans in general and American Jews in particular to make it clear where its true interests lie.
With peace with the Palestinians, Israel might even be able to count on the Sunni Arabs to stand with it in its confrontation with Iran.
Eddie Bernstein gave further voice to his concerns when he wrote:
I understand what you are saying. What Obama said that he would modify 1967 borders with swaps and Netanyahu over-reacted. However, Hamas is sworn to Israel’s destruction and it is hard to negotiate with someone who wants you destroyed. Many Israeli’s would like a two state solution. However that is a no-no for most Palestinians and other Arabs. It is hard to negotiate with someone like that. I am being too simplistic ?
I replied:
Yes, I do think you are being to simplistic. There is no question that it is very hard for Palestinians to give up the right of return. They feel they have been made victims to make up for the Nazi atrocities in which they had no part. They dream of returning to their ancestral homelands. But they also have come to grips with reality. According to Wikileaks Abbas agreed to give up the Right of Return during the last round of negotiations, but did not want it to be known unless a final agreement was signed, but before that could happen the Israeli government fell and Netanyahu became P.M.
So close and yet so far. If Israel truly wanted peace they would stop expanding and building settlement, thus gobbling up more and more Palestinian territory and reducing the area where eventually all Palestinians from their diaspora will have to settle. They are now settled (if one can call it that) in refugee camps in various Arab countries, such as Lebanon, Syria, etc. where they are not wanted and are denied permanent residency and citizenship. Their situation is desperate. Where is humanity? Can't Israel let them return to an economically viable Palestine where after generations of inhuman suffering in those camps they can get citizenship and begin to build some sort of life.
Surely, if they can't come back to Israel they should be entitled to that.
Most important, stop the expansion and the building of settlements on the remaining Palestinian lands.
Leonard Levenson Esq. of Manhattan, NY added to the discussion with the comment:
The right wing in the US is obviously pandering to the "Jewish vote" in the US. Ironically, continued tensions between Israel and the Palestinians make for a much more dangerous Middle East and a more dangerous situation for Israel. A contiguous Palestinian State via unhampered underground travel between Gaza and the West Bank will remove some of the daily, abrasive fuel feeding the Arab Extremist cause. A prosperous Palestinian state may even encourage population shifts by the 1.8 million Israeli Arabs to a Palestinian state thereby satisfying the call for Israeli purity so often heard from a small percentage of Israelis and a larger number of American Jewish extremists. Bravo for Obama on this one.
Finally, I commend to the reader an article by Richard Cohen in the Washington Post entitled: Israel - Time for Netanyahu to ditch his do-nothing policy" as well as an article by by Hendrik Hertzberg writing in the New Yorker.
As I have said time and time again, We should all support a Jewish homeland in Israel. But that does not mean supporting every policy of its government without questioning its soundness on both humanistic principles and true Israeli security, rather than than allowing the hijacking of the Jewish homeland by a bunch of fanatics who are bent on annexing all, or most, of Samaria and Judea (The West Bank) without regard to Palestinian rights or welfare.
As for who one can negotiate with, one can never know who one can negotiate with until one has tried to do so in good faith. An exchange of recognition of Israel in exchange for recognition of a Palestinian state, along the borders both Bush and Obama, and every US President before them have advocated, should be the goal.
Those who deny the humanity and legitimate rights of the Palestinians, must be marginalized and rejected. That is being truly pro-Israel!!!
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